068 Tayler Amatto, Associate Principal at Charles River Associates & Future President of ELI

Tayler Amatto (00:00)
so basically the NGEN program is a one year executive leadership development program. It's designed to cultivate visionary leaders from again, all across areas of the energy industry. ⁓ So basically it provides participants with exclusive and collaborative forum to enhance those leadership skills, to foster cross sector collaboration,

innovation and figure out some of these challenges. I was a cohort member, think, in 2023. And it was, I don't want to say life changing because that sounds very dramatic, but it was a fascinating experience. Mark, guess, well, yeah, like, I guess.

Mark Hinaman (00:33)
It can be life changing. Professional

programs can have a huge impact on your life. Yeah.

Tayler Amatto (00:39)
Yeah,

Yes, so we also do have our applications for our upcoming 2026 cohort. They are due in 10 days, so closing August 15th.

for any of those listeners interested, you can reach out to me and happy to share more perspectives on the program and Mark, maybe I'll send if you have a link to post. ⁓ And we're expecting your application too.

Mark Hinaman (00:55)
Yeah, absolutely. We post it on the show notes.

Okay, welcome to another episode of the Fire Division podcast where we talk about energy and fuels and how they can better human lives. We've got a special guest today, Taylor Amato, the Associate Principal at Charles River Associates and the future president of the Energy Leadership Institute. How you doing, Taylor?

Tayler Amatto (02:21)
Thank you for having me. I'm well.

Mark Hinaman (02:24)
Yeah, really excited to chat about background and the Energy Leadership Institute and all the things so Taylor for guests. Why don't you give us a quick like 30 second elevator pitch. Tell us kind of what your day job is right now and then we'll dive into your background.

Tayler Amatto (02:41)
Sure, sounds good. Hi everyone, my name is Taylor Amato. ⁓ As Mark said, I'm an associate principal with a firm called Charles River Associates, which is an expert-led economics consulting firm based out of Boston, but I am here in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. My background, I graduated from the University of Calgary with an economics degree.

more so focused on energy economics and then started my career within consulting, worked for Accenture and PWC and then recently worked for a private equity firm called Azimuth which was a great experience working on a fund that was 100 % dedicated to energy transition and low carbon fuels which was really exciting and then

I've been with Charles River Associates ever since November. And my work kind of spans a few different areas. At Charles River, we do a lot of work within the energy space with utilities. And obviously, it's a very exciting time right now with utilities, with AI, load growth, reshoring and manufacturing, et cetera, in North America. And so it's been really interesting.

doing some work within the resource adequacy space, understanding is there going to be enough power to support this ⁓ scale of growth, and then also working with a few different clients on various strategy initiatives too.

Mark Hinaman (03:52)
Nice, awesome. I can't wait to work through kind of all of that. But let's start with your education. Why did you pick energy economics at the University of Calgary?

Tayler Amatto (04:02)
Yeah, so for those of you who are familiar with Calgary, Calgary is a very oil and gas town. So energy is kind of, know, yeah, yeah, exactly. Although I think Calgary is prettier, but that's fine. ⁓ But that's kind what we've been brought up with. And so it just kind of seemed natural. It was a good kind of landing point within a few different like, you know, gas markets, oil markets, electricity markets. And at the time I was also doing a minor in

Mark Hinaman (04:08)
Denver's sister city, right? Yeah.

Ha ha ha ha!

Tayler Amatto (04:24)
as well, just because I enjoyed math. So was kind of the best of both worlds. And then graduated, and I'm working through my CFA program as well, sadly. But yeah, it was a good experience. And I also did a little bit of master's work too at the University of Wyoming within project finance, which was nice for my last role at Asmuth, just to kind of get some more expertise within the area.

Mark Hinaman (04:47)
Thanks. So you want to work for Accenture, right, Dataspell?

Tayler Amatto (04:51)
Yeah, I started with them as an intern actually and then joined them full-time after grad and actually worked in London in the UK for a bit and then came back and then decided to join my manager at ⁓ PWC and so worked on some finance transformation initiatives with various types of clients, more manufacturing, egg. That was really interesting and then...

kind of decided to do a of a career pivot, I guess, and be like, I want to focus on CFA and get some more finance chops. so I actually took a one-year contract position as an analyst, which was kind of a couple steps down. But I just wanted to learn with Azimuth, a private equity firm based here in Calgary and in California, and ended up staying there for three and a half years.

Mark Hinaman (05:37)
Nice. And CFA, the acronym, right, for dummies that aren't in finance certified. Yeah. Analyst, right? Yeah. Okay. the, guess, what was PWC?

Tayler Amatto (05:41)
⁓ Thanks Carter, financial analyst.

The firm is, it's a big four accounting firm, ⁓ but they also have advisory services too, so I was on the advisory consulting side.

Mark Hinaman (06:01)
Nice. And so what drew you to private equity? Why did you want to jump into that?

Tayler Amatto (06:06)
I think for a couple different reasons. private equity is nice, in my opinion, of bridge between

you know full investment banking and then

so coming more from a consulting background. Azimuth II, I was attracted to them just based on they've been in the Calgary Alberta market, Western Canada market for over 20 years, kind of started their roots within traditional oil and gas, but was branching out into energy transition. And at the time it was very topical and relevant. So it was a great opportunity to learn about that. And when I started, I didn't know much about hydrogen and came out with a lot more knowledge on it, for example.

Mark Hinaman (06:40)
Nice. So, I mean, this was like one year stint, wanted to get exposure to it, but then ended up staying for three and half years. What? And like, what kind of companies was Asmuth investing in? What? And when, when was this? guess, was this like 2020, 2021?

Tayler Amatto (06:55)
Yeah, exactly. I think I joined in 2021. So they were looking at, they had a bit of a unique approach, starting with kind of more project development type.

opportunities where they would actually kind of start a company in-house and then look to expand it with some external capital as well. So I got to work on a few early stage development companies, most notably one being in the low carbon hydrogen and ammonia space. Basically it was a blue, if I can use colors, again hydrogen, ammonia play on the US Gulf Coast for shipment of ammonia and methylcyclohexane into primarily Japan.

So that was really interesting, kind of starting from strategy, onset, market analysis, and then moving into working with some of the team on some of the early stage pre-feed work, and then beyond that into actually commercial negotiations and offtake discussions. So that was really interesting.

Mark Hinaman (07:56)
yeah, I guess circling back to your education, like what drew you to economics? What, I mean, like when I've interacted with you, you're, you're very well versed, you're well read, right? You've got lots of experience with a lot of the energy industry. I mean, did, did you want to like have a cast a wide net? I mean,

Tayler Amatto (08:14)
Yeah, I think I was more just kind of quantitative focused as well and I kind of thought about maybe doing business but I realized I don't really want to be an accountant and that's what I kind of associated business with accounting at the time and so I economics would have been or would be a better fit and

I mean, I haven't really practiced or done a lot of work within economics from when I graduated until I started with Charles River, but I think now just taking that economics view into things that obviously it's very relevant for.

the market in regards to or for utilities in regards to market design in regards to you know how generators submit their bids and what not and market power mitigation so it's very relevant to the utility space so it's been it's been really nice kind of ⁓ coming full circle around that.

Mark Hinaman (08:58)
Yeah, that's awesome. So how did you pivot from Asmith to, I guess you did a little stint in the government, right? And then Charles River. Yeah.

Tayler Amatto (09:07)
Yeah, I

have the opportunity to ⁓ do a of ⁓ a small stint with the provincial government working on their sustainable investing initiatives and then moving into working on some of the nuclear work. So the province is exploring what nuclear development could mean within the province of Alberta and for those of you who maybe are not familiar, Alberta is a bit unique. One, we have an energy only market so we're ⁓ kind of more like

Texas style to majority of our demand comes from industrial use. We're not a huge province, we don't have a huge population and the population is kind of centered within two main cities who are relatively

Mark Hinaman (09:46)
What is the population

of Albert? I should know this.

Tayler Amatto (09:49)
I think it's, I should know this too, I think it's like maybe four and half to five million. So it's growing, it's growing quite rapidly actually. There's been a lot of movement into the province from other provinces, from BC, from Ontario. are a bit cheaper out here. There's lots of space. So it's, in my opinion, a great place to be. You got the mountains, you got the cities. So it's great. Yeah.

Mark Hinaman (09:52)
Should we look it up? We'll look it up. Yeah.

million. There we go.

It is beautiful. When I visit it, it's fantastic. Like,

Tayler Amatto (10:16)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, winter's going to be a

Mark Hinaman (10:16)
haven't been in the summer, only the winter. But yeah, looks very fun.

Tayler Amatto (10:19)
little long and miserable, but yeah, it's still pretty nice.

Mark Hinaman (10:22)
Not with skiing,

I BAMF's right there, you you got the Canadian Rockies. So, but work with the government, doing, looking into nuclear and like what nuclear could mean for Alberta.

Tayler Amatto (10:26)
country skiing too so it's great. ⁓

Yeah, so the province

is looking at what that could mean. There's obviously a lot of nuances here, being, as I said, an energy-only market. kind of the typical, if you look at maybe Ontario, how the government has kind of taken a financing role and funding role that...

wouldn't be as favored within Alberta just because it's more of a hands-off, like let the market forces do its work. So that obviously creates challenges because I'm sure you guys have talked lots on this podcast about the need for some federal or some government funding. Now that could come from the federal government within Canada, but provincial there could just be a bit of a nuance there. And then as well, just finding like the proper use cases for it, right? We have a lot of gas and Alberta actually had, you know, before our electricity mix

a lot of coal and within the past I think couple years they managed to transition off.

coal completely. And luckily we have a lot of natural gas resources here. And so natural gas is kind of our main fuel provider. We also have some renewable developments as well, but natural gas has kind of been key. So it's hard to maybe compete with nuclear and especially at the grid scale with ⁓ that availability of low cost gas and abundant gas, I should say too. So again, trying to think about, okay, so nuclear, does that mean more the SMR route and maybe more

deployed within kind of remote communities for power, maybe more in the oil sands for, you know, to decarbonize and electrify some things there. So again, just kind of finding the right use cases, testing the sentiment of the public as well, and engaging with public stakeholders, whether or not that's, if that's desired and if nuclear would be welcomed in the province. So again, all that is just...

Mark Hinaman (12:19)
What did you learn?

Did people want it? Did people like it? I mean, when you had discussions about this?

Tayler Amatto (12:24)
Yeah,

so all of that is still going to be like in progress right now.

Mark Hinaman (12:28)
It's in progress.

Okay. Yeah.

Tayler Amatto (12:29)
Yeah,

and those discussions and community engagement, so and stakeholder engagement, I should say. So that's kind of been ongoing. So I would be remiss to comment on that at this time. But I do think that there are some good use cases. you know, have we're friendly with Saskatchewan, which is right next door to us. And they obviously have a lot of ⁓ uranium reserves, too. So and then we have a bit of a supply chain within Canada with some conversion and processing in Ontario. So there could be

lot of an out for like the more enriched uranium and the HALU production that's a different story but again there are some opportunities for ⁓ a nuclear supply chain potentially across Canada and then again looking into some some things within Alberta.

Mark Hinaman (13:11)
Yeah, mean, nuclear in Canada is huge, right? Like you guys' unique can-do reactors that have been exported all over the world. The GE Hitachi experiment that's going on in Ontario right now. I say experiment. The SMR that is getting built, right? BWX 300. yeah, hopefully not an experiment, right? The commencement of ⁓ a global program to deploy SMRs everywhere, right? Just the first one.

Tayler Amatto (13:26)
I hope it's not an experiment. hope it's more of a...

Yeah, it seems like

maybe the marketed world is kind of watching.

OPG's Darlington nuclear facility right now just to see if it will our SMR facility just to see how that goes so hopefully all goes well and construction, you know always comes with its challenges, but yeah, they I think Canada is a leader and you know for power as well as for medical purposes too Which I feel is feel like is always kind of forgotten in the nuclear space But obviously very very important. So so there's lots of potential again, just trying to figure out like then you introduce the regulatory environment

and what does that look like? There's a lot of challenges. So it's definitely a longer term solution. I think if anything does come on within Alberta, potential strong use cases here.

Mark Hinaman (14:14)
Yeah, but that I mean, the natural gas case in Alberta is like massive, right? I mean, there's just so much natural gas. You said abundant supply and low cost, but I think that's without adding a bunch of adjectives like enormous supply and fantastically low cost. it's, I don't know. I saw a presentation by one of the sharks, Kevin O'Leary, was like Edmonton, Alberta, like the mother load of it all.

Those were his words, mother lode of natural gas.

Tayler Amatto (14:41)
Yeah, we do have a lot and same with our neighbors to the west too in BC and in the northeast there's some natural gas as well. So that's why LNG was a big attraction for some of the stranded natural gas here where we can't get it to market necessarily due to some infrastructure challenges. And if anybody... ⁓

Mark Hinaman (14:59)
like building pipelines

over the Canadian Rockies.

Tayler Amatto (15:02)
or to the south or to the east. We're not really the inter-provincial trade within Canada has been, I don't want to get political or anything, but it has been, I feel like the cracks in the foundation have definitely come through the past few months with the tariff talks and everything and trying to create more of a one Canada approach, but recognizing that.

Mark Hinaman (15:03)
or to the south, right? Yeah, building any pipeline, yeah.

Tayler Amatto (15:25)
that inter-provincial trade does not work, whether it is beer. could be even truckers having to have different chains and stuff and tires moving from one province to the next. So never mind trying to build a long distance transmission or pipeline. So lots of challenges there, lots of potential too.

Mark Hinaman (15:40)
Yeah, that's

Tayler Amatto (15:42)
Yeah, so we are blessed with our natural resources and hopefully we can continue to expand, think, too, with some of the, if we slow down to the Permian, there's some potential for some more Canadian oil. So again, just market access has always been a challenge.

Mark Hinaman (15:55)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we can leave the inter-provincial trade to another discussion. Fascinating discussion, but. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so Charles River, right? You found yourself there after a stint working for provincial government. Like, how's it been? What kind of work are you guys doing? Yeah, give us a little color into your current day job.

Tayler Amatto (16:00)
So, big discussion.

It's been great. Charles River has been, this is actually the 60th anniversary. So I set it within the energy practice. So I'm a little bit ignorant to some of the other work that we do, but basically kind of two different arms. One is more the commercial advisory, so some consulting type work versus the...

expert testimony and litigation. within the energy practice, of our, so first off, Charles River operates on more of an expert driven model. So everybody here at the firm is kind of, you know, this wide, but miles deep. And so, you know, whether it's from regulatory background, whether it's from distribution, transmission, like grid enhancement products, kind of whatever the niche is, that's where people kind of find their specialty. And, and so that's been, I think, really useful when it comes to engaging with clients. So on the obviously,

expert testimony side, it's great appearing on behalf of utilities in front of their regulators to provide that kind of expertise testimony. And then also on the commercial advisory side, feel like...

you know, having worked at Accenture and PWC was different is that again, it's coming in with, you know, still kind of the functional strategy and management consulting type skill sets, but also just being able to apply very strongly compliance or governance viewpoints that I feel like without having some, you know, really deep roots within the industry would be more difficult to have at other firms. So yeah, it's been really good. The nature of the work has been interesting.

I feel like me personally, I'm kind of interested within our like resource adequacy, which I talked about, which is basically looking at, you know, is there going to be enough power to supply growing demand? And how is that power accredited and considered and accounted for as well by an RTO? Thinking through like interconnection, new transmission build up to, there's a lot going on within the utility space and then layering in, you know, different or layering in all these changes

the federal level down in the US with you know changing wind and solar credits, more nuclear mandates, so there's just lots going on. Reshoring and manufacturing that's going to be another potentially load area of load growth as well and not just data centers so it's a really fascinating time to be in this space and I'm kind of fortunate I'm coming in with like a bit more of a functional background I think so I kind of get to kind of apply

my skill set in regards to strategic thinking or investment decisions into a wide variety of topics. So yeah, I can't say enough about the firm and the team.

Mark Hinaman (18:39)
Nice. I want to double click on this idea of energy markets, purely energy markets versus capacity. Catalyst, which is podcast I listed, it's fantastic. Just had a guy from PJM, we're talking about PJM capacity markets and how capacity markets in the US are now getting more more expensive. Which like these are two separate parts of how you can buy energy, Like capacity being like energy is available at all times and then energy being

like, hey, we're paying for the energy as we use it. And you're saying Alberta's similar to ERCOT where it's just an energy market. You don't get paid for the availability, but like that's straining the system now and it is becoming problematic. I thinking about that correctly or?

Tayler Amatto (19:18)
Well, when you think about it within, so first off basically the capacity payments try to solve that missing money problem. So basically compensating generators to be online, be available, to produce with appropriate return on capital beyond the energy market or ancillary services that they would provide.

⁓ In Alberta, so because that capacity payment is missing to solve that missing money problem basically what we've observed within the Alberta market over time has been a bit of a tolerated level of market power if you will and it's kind of embedded within the Alberta market construct. So that has been successful in regards to creating these scarcity events or price

⁓ spikes and higher prices to basically incentivize new generations. So it's kind of letting the market forces do its work more or less without a lot of intervention, without mandating this is how much we need, etc. Now Alberta is going through a bit of a restructuring on their market and some of the electricity designs so you know some...

more guardrails around scarcity pricing, more guardrails around price caps and even negative pricing price floors will come into play over the next latter part of this decade and starting kind of in 2026. So that could shake up the market a little bit.

and change some of those nuances in regards to how the market has behaved traditionally with this market power just being tolerated. it's interesting and ERCOT I can't speak too much to, not as familiar with know kind of how they have been but again operating on very similar where it's letting the market forces do its work and and attracting and kind of providing incentives for that type of investment. So when you like for example in Alberta when now you're introducing a negative pricing without a production tax credit

for wind and solar, well, if you're generating during the negative pricing hours, then you're actually at an economic disadvantage. So again, it's changing some of the market signals in regards to investment signals in regards to what would get built within the province.

Mark Hinaman (21:13)
Yeah, nice.

I mean, you live in Alberta, but do you just advise on stuff in Alberta or is your work broader than that?

Tayler Amatto (21:22)
No, I would say majority of my clients currently are in the US and I feel like majority of my work over the past at least five years has been more US focused. I've kind of worked broad like in the East a little bit or Midwest, in the US Gulf Coast, California.

Mark Hinaman (21:32)
specific areas of the US are just kind of all over the place.

Tayler Amatto (21:42)
So I think it's nice, like, you the US is obviously such a bigger market than Canada. There's...

obviously very important market to us and to the rest of the world for lot of reasons. So sometimes it's a little bit more exciting down south of the border. And I think just being able to understand on a global perspective what's going on and from a more continental perspective and then bringing it back from a Canada lens has been useful. And then vice versa, of sharing my perspectives on north of the border with some of my colleagues who more focused on the US. So it's been a nice...

I'm fortunate to have the view of both, I guess.

Mark Hinaman (22:16)
Okay, so an energy leadership Institute, ⁓ ELI. Do you guys call it ELI? Is there an acronym to this? Ellie? Like, yeah. What is this organization? How did they get started? Yeah, give us the history. Give us the background.

Tayler Amatto (22:22)
Yeah.

Yeah, so the Energy Leadership Institute is a relatively new organization. It is a 501C nonprofit in the US, so it is kind of headquartered down there. The Energy Leadership Institute kind of, okay, so first off, there was a program called Energy Generation, or the NGen program. Kind of pre-ELI, so pre-Energy Leadership Institute, that program was operated in Colorado, COSA.

Mark Hinaman (22:55)
Oil and Gas

Association. Yeah, Koga. Yep. Yep.

Tayler Amatto (22:57)
Koga. Thank you. Yeah, just.

So the NGEN program kind of was started within ⁓ Colorado Oil and Gas Association, COGA, and ran quite a few cohorts and I'll talk about what that program looks like. And then a few of the participants from there, they all got together during COVID and said, okay, I think we can do this at a bigger scale and I think we can have more impact. Obviously, from my understanding before that, that was very kind of Colorado and oil and gas focused. And then the recognition was okay, like energy's changing.

is going to change, the future is changing, how do we kind of stay abreast on some of those topics? And so that's kind of where the Energy Leadership Institute was informed to basically encourage dialogue across from various facets of the energy industry, not just oil and gas, not just emerging energy, but just kind of all things, and bring kind of emerging leaders and leaders together across the US and Canada too, there's a few of us from involved obviously, to have these dialogues.

and think through some of them and try to solve some of the most complex and pressing issues that the energy industry faces.

Mark Hinaman (24:03)
Yeah, yeah, I had lunch with Drew yesterday, which is he's on the board and he was one of the founders, I guess, of Eli or the Energy Leadership Institute. So yeah, he said the NGEN program started in like 2010 with Koga and has had like a number of cohorts and awesome people that have gone through it. So ⁓

Tayler Amatto (24:07)
Okay, nice.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so just to explain more the NGEN program. So that's kind of the flagship program of the Energy Leadership Institute. Kind of our other two pillars are.

like community sponsorship and then also thought leadership, is something, alumni engagement, which is something we're trying to expand and grow on. But kind of our main focus has been the NGEN program. And so basically the NGEN program is a one year executive leadership development program. It's designed to cultivate visionary leaders from again, all across areas of the energy industry. So basically it provides participants with exclusive and collaborative forum to enhance those leadership skills, to foster cross sector collaboration,

innovation and figure out some of these challenges. I was a cohort member, think, in 2023. And it was, I don't want to say life changing because that sounds very dramatic, but it was a fascinating experience. Mark, guess, well, yeah, like, I guess.

Mark Hinaman (25:15)
It can be life changing. Professional

programs can have a huge impact on your life. Yeah.

Tayler Amatto (25:21)
Yeah, and Mark,

you experienced some of the magic, I guess, a couple of weeks ago, or a few weeks ago at Stanford at our July seminar. So we'd love to hear your perspectives too. But basically, what it is, is a group of 25 to 28 mid to senior level career folks, again, from oil and gas, from renewables, from utilities, from...

financing from tribal organizations, from consulting. It's just like, it's such a diverse background. And I feel like the more voices you get in the room, the more kind of provocative and thought provoking conversations you can have.

So basically, NGEN is, as I said, so it's a 10 month program. We host quarterly in-person seminars. So those are hosted with our partners in Denver with NREL in DC as well. So Denver, we kind of start off kicking off by just like, know, Energy 101, all the different areas, just kind of focusing on a few different key trends and just kind of the scene in January. In April this year, we went to DC to talk about the politics and to talk about, you know,

impact of regulation and policy on energy and you know that sometimes gets very, know having both sides of the aisle in those discussions can get very interesting and focus on other topics like energy justice ⁓ etc. just to kind of round out the approach. Our third seminar is with our partners at Stanford, the Natural Gas Institute and that one is much more focused on climate change and emerging technology so...

As know, Mark, the topic this year was, you know, before we talked a lot about hydrogen and CCS. This year was a bit more focused on, you know, like SMR, nuclear. We haven't really had a dedicated conversation to that before. Obviously level setting on.

on just general topics of climate change and the impacts. We talked about wildfire mitigation and planning this year, which was a fascinating discussion. And then also hearing from founders and whatnot who have actually built companies within the energy space down in the Silicon Valley area. So just kind of rounding it all out. And then the fourth one is we go to Houston in October.

And again, that one's even thinking more broad, more the geopolitical, looking beyond just the bounds of continental US and North America and focusing on engagement with other geographies and countries on energy trade. And that one is in partnership with Rice University.

So those are kind of the four quarterly in-person seminars. We also have monthly virtual programs kind of in between, so basically half-day virtual seminars that include like programming, some discussions, a little bit of networking, where we kind of hit upon more of the leadership topics, so like change management, mentorship, conflict resolution, DEI, some of those, like the things that just kind of like round out a proper ⁓ leader.

as well and do that with various speakers that we bring in and whatnot. would say too that kind of like...

the beauty and the magic of NGIN kind of comes from, it's nice to be virtual, but also being all together. And we're trying to create more of that community across the US now that we're three cohorts deep from this Eli-led NGIN, not discounting any of prior ⁓ Eli NGIN participants, but creating a bit more of an alumni network as well and various networking sessions in Houston or Denver where kind of most of the cohort tends to be.

And we're looking to expand that even more, just to create more of a community again. I mean, I've met some people I never would have met through NGEN and some friends. yeah, I can't say enough about the program.

Mark Hinaman (28:55)
How did you find it? I mean, you were in the first cohort with Eli, right?

Tayler Amatto (29:01)
was, yes. So I was actually introduced to it by one of my mentors, Naomi Bowness from ⁓ Stanford's Natural Gas Initiative and Hydrogen Initiative.

kind of was just like being a bit of a keener and looking for how do I get more involved in things, kind of contemplating do I go back to school at this time to do a master's or not. And she introduced me to this program and Naomi sits on our advisory board and has been an absolutely critical partner to our Stanford events and whatnot. So she's been great.

the value of mentors is like, that's a whole different discussion. And I'm very grateful for Naomi and others that have provided me with these opportunities. And my goal is to give back.

as well. I do just want to call out some of our, again just to round out some of our diverse backgrounds, some of our sponsors too have been GTI Energy, Phillips 66, Apex, Chevron, New Jersey Resources, Gradient Geothermal, and we're growing that sponsorship base as well for this upcoming year and again looking forward

Mark Hinaman (30:01)
So these are big

organizations from a myriad of backgrounds that like find this effort worthy of giving dollars to. So.

Tayler Amatto (30:10)
And I think too it's from you know the benefit to a sponsor is you know access to Like talent right like just broadening that but also just getting a little bit more in the like ingrained within you know, it's kind of a nice program where it's there are some aspects of

like energy, also some aspects of training and development too. So kind of like hitting upon some of those points too. So again, that's been great. And again, we couldn't do it without our sponsors. Like I mentioned, NREL, think, JPMorgan, Colorado School of Mines, Stanford, Natural Gas Initiative, CU, Denver, and Rice University. So again, we would not be in existence without those partners and sponsors.

Mark Hinaman (30:50)
So you found out about it through a mentor, but if folks want to learn more about the program, I mean, this is obviously right, like we're able to talk about it here and promote it, but folks can go online and learn more.

Tayler Amatto (31:02)
Yes, so I'm happy to share the link with you, but we also do have our applications for our upcoming 2026 cohort. They are due in 10 days, so closing August 15th. Basically the program kind of, the application process.

would end like the interview process kind of goes into the fall and then selection I think in by November and then kind of we have like an intro meeting in December and then the program kind of kicks off officially in January. So and that endgame now runs for 10 months. It's not a huge time commitment other than kind of two days, two days and a half I guess every quarter within our in-person meetups and then the three hours once per month on the virtual calls. So it's not a huge time commitment. is accessible from a cost perspective

perspective and yeah, a great opportunity. So happy to, for any of those listeners interested, I'm happy to, you can reach out to me and happy to share more perspectives on the program and Mark, maybe I'll send if you have a link to post. ⁓ And we're expecting your application too.

Mark Hinaman (31:57)
Yeah, absolutely. We post it on the show notes.

I can't wait. I'll say, right, so like you invited me to come out to Stanford and be a speaker and chat about chat with you guys about nuclear energy. And I didn't really know what I was getting into with the group, but I was able to stick around for a couple of days. like these are small groups of people, but the quality of individual is incredible.

Like I was blown away by the cohort that you guys had assembled and like it's pretty exclusive group in my opinion. And not like exclusive in like an elitist way, but exclusive in like a, hey, these are hard hitting, like highly functional, very capable human beings that are making a huge contribution to the energy industry. And like to be part of that, it is awesome. I was really impressed with everyone that was kind of involved with the 2025 cohort.

So.

Tayler Amatto (32:54)
appreciate you saying that. think that's a perfect way to put it. Again, we look for those folks that have a passion, have obviously relevant experience, have proven some of their leadership capabilities and desire to enhance them even more, and are able to carry on, engage and have these conversations and put themselves out there, make themselves a little bit vulnerable sometimes, get to know other people from other backgrounds and be able to have those discussions.

The group that we select usually comes together and it's a perfect mix. There's not really any bad apples ever. And it just seems to be like everybody kind of meshes and regardless of your background or anything else, it's been great. So I think that's really what just...

encourages the magic of NGen to come together even more in regards to that informed dialogue and different perspectives. And again, just broadening horizons and talking to people that you never thought that you would talk to or hear from. And I think too, just having the exposure to some of the speakers, whether it's the virtual seminars or even on our in-person meetups, that's been, like that's a huge opportunity too. And hearing from, you know, like...

very well-respected leaders and CEOs in their space and in a kind of a vulnerable Chatham House rule, but closed door environment has been fascinating too.

Mark Hinaman (34:08)
Yeah, child

house rule, but like no phones, no like what's what's said in the room stays in the room. Like, like the goal is. Yeah, yeah.

Tayler Amatto (34:13)
Yeah, not attributed to anybody. so

it's not like an just a, you know, for a CEO or executive to be up there. It's not just like a typical earnings call. It is more about like, what are they concerned about? What keeps them up at night? How? And then also hearing their leadership journey and how they got to where they are and some of their big

notable events and challenges in their career that they've had to deal with. And just in that raw, vulnerable view has been great. So we try not to make it, it's obviously educational, but try not to make it just like, know, and deliver, make it very...

And I think the nice part too is the interactivity from the cohort. The cohort usually asks questions, probes on things, maybe disagrees slightly or challenges, and having that dialogue with the speakers as well has been great.

Mark Hinaman (34:59)
Yeah, I mean, I want to talk about some of the things that we saw at the Stanford event, but like, yeah, we can't, right? Or we're not supposed to publicly. but we can say like, guys had Maynard Holt there as one of your keynote speakers, right? Maynard's awesome, right? Like everything that he's done with Veriton and their team. And he offered some perspectives that were just incredible. So.

Tayler Amatto (35:05)
Hahaha

Yeah, Maynard's a very close friend and a great mentor as well to me. he's, and hearing his perspectives on the energy industry kind of unfiltered because he's usually the one interviewing people on his podcast, Closing Business Tuesday, and now hearing his perspectives, was just a nice, nice change.

Mark Hinaman (35:33)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah, I was like, my God, this is, yeah, you don't get this kind of content publicly. it's all, yeah. So, I mean, like, and this is a competitive process, right? Like people apply for the program and presumably you more applicants than you take people in, right? So, and it's closing quickly. So if folks want to be involved for the 2026 program, then it's kind of like act now or

Tayler Amatto (35:43)
Exactly.

August

15th, the application is decently thorough, but again, it's just to get a good sense of who you are, and then we do do a brief interview as well, just to kind of put a face to a name and hear a little bit more about folks' stories, and then make our selection from there.

Mark Hinaman (36:17)
Yeah, nice. I mean, this is you said alumni network. There's more than just the three years of alumni that have gone through the through Energy Leadership Institute, but through COGA too. mean, and I guess being part of a single year, you might develop close relationships with 20, 25, 30 folks from that cohort, but then you get access. I mean, it's kind of a branding and access to the rest of the alumni network, right?

Tayler Amatto (36:43)
Exactly, and I think that that's what we're, you know, if we think about upcoming priorities for the next year, three years, for example, or at least a couple years, one is really fostering, now that we have a bit more depth too from Eli and Jen, and then also pre-Eli and Jen, being able to make those connections as well, right? So hosting kind of out of the traditional cohort programming happy hours in different cities, like I said, one event that we...

that I think is a great opportunity to bring folks together is our graduation ceremony in October in Houston. And again, I think that the more diverse backgrounds we can get from folks who have gone through the program in one way or another, or even former speakers or just other folks that we know within the industry, I think that's a great opportunity as well just to of foster that cross collaboration. I think about the vision for Eli and Ngen, like I said, down the road.

I think it goes beyond just this formal program and actually being able to reach out to folks, whether it's for personal, business perspectives, engage in that dialogue, kind of take the magic of NGEN and get it outside of NGEN. We're working on hosting webinars throughout ⁓ the year and to kind of open up some of the topics that we discuss to the public as well. So again, there's lots of opportunities to expand and I think that that's gonna be kind of our focus now that we have a good foundation and we've proven that this works and we've got some great

testimonials and feedback. It's okay now where do we go from here and how do we expand that?

Mark Hinaman (38:08)
Yeah, yeah. You guys looking for people from every energy sector, but like you need more folks from nuclear, right? So come on, mid career, like leaders in the nuclear industry that want to step up and get exposure, like apply, absolutely. But also...

Tayler Amatto (38:20)
Yeah. Like I said, financing,

nonprofits, government, advisory, whatever, oil and gas. Yeah, no, it's definitely like, again, it's all facets of the energy industry. We're not selective. So.

Mark Hinaman (38:25)
Oil and gas. Still oil and gas. Oil and gas guys are still welcome, right?

So, I mean, if this program is successful, then what does this look like for the future of energy? Which I think it's awesome, right? There's cross collaboration that happens between folks in different sectors of the energy industry. They get to cross pollinate and share ideas. But it's stuff like this that companies are founded on and new organizations are built.

I mean, is that kind of your guys' vision? Where do you see this going and how does it help the energy industry in the future?

Tayler Amatto (39:01)
No?

I think you answered your own question, because I think that's exactly what I would have said, though, in regards to where is it heading? That's exactly the kind of community that we want to build. The more that you're in the energy industry, it's smaller than you think. So there are some regular folks that you get to know and see at conferences or across the country or whatever it is. And I think...

Mark Hinaman (39:04)
I know, I just answered it.

Tayler Amatto (39:25)
Bridge like creating more of those connections is key, but also just like forcing people kind of out of their their You know areas and like so for folks maybe an oil and gas like have been kind of heads down on Like maybe more the field side of things and actually like the EMP and being like, okay Like what else is going on within the energy space and kind of how is that? How could that impact my job? How could that you know benefit my job? How could that you know change? What do I also need to be thinking about? I think it's a game just like creating this more well-rounded

energy leader over time that's more aware of you know events going on of other industries of industry trends of how to think about things you know from a nonprofit or community perspective right like the impact that we all for example talk about decarbonization but what is the impact on ratepayers and environmental justice communities so

There's so much that I feel like sometimes it's just forgotten when you're so much in the weeds on a day-to-day basis and kind of within your silo that it's important to kind of take a step back and be challenged and challenge your thinking from other perspectives. So again, it's that cross-functional, cross-collaborative ⁓ environment that we hope to, you know, well-rounded leader that we hope to ⁓ create.

Mark Hinaman (40:35)
Yeah. I I saw there's an executive from one of the largest oil and gas companies in the country that was a member of the cohort. And he told me like his motivation was to see outside of oil and gas and see, you know, get a broader perspective and what else was going on. So, Taylor, give us your picture of the future. Paint the picture. Like where is the energy industry going? What does it look like? Leave us on an optimistic note of

kind of how the next five, 10, 15 years are playing out.

Tayler Amatto (41:06)
I feel like that's everybody's question right now. I do not have a crystal ball, so obviously it's impossible to say. I will say, I could hope, I hope that it's an all of the above approach. I hope that there's a recognition for lower carbon opportunities and emerging, or I shouldn't say emerging, but know.

Mark Hinaman (41:11)
You don't have to be right. It's okay to be wrong. ⁓

Tayler Amatto (41:26)
newer technologies like SMRs and coming in the forefront, but also recognizing that oil and gas is still gonna be part of our mix. Maybe that's the Albert and me, but 100 % I'm a strong believer within the oil and gas industry and it functions our life and empowers our life. So I'm really excited to see, again, more of an all of the above approach. I hope that's what's taken. I hope that it's also a pragmatic and economic approach where what makes sense economically works versus forcing something through and kind of fighting that uphill battle

or even fighting against thermodynamics sometimes with some of these emerging energy industries and really finding the best use cases for them to make things go. I hope from a Canadian perspective that there's a lot more inter-provincial cooperation and more of a one Canada approach. I hope that more things get built and I think that's...

you know, north and south of the border and anywhere else, right? Being able to, you know, permitting is a long process. Regulatory is a long process. And I hope that that changes because we do need more infrastructure. We do need things to get built. And the more delays, the more cost, and eventually it's just passed upon to regular citizens. that's my hope. I hope that there's some...

recognition too just for like again that cross collaboration not going back to my first point about you know all the above approach not one being bad or one being better than the other so that's my hope I feel like I'll leave it on a more of a hopeful note instead of a this is what's gonna happen

Mark Hinaman (42:51)
Yeah,

that's perfect. Awesome. Taylor Amato, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me.

Tayler Amatto (42:55)
Thank you, thanks for having me.

‍